[personal profile] cosmolinguist
So here's the tangential stuff I just mentioned.


The article links to the Cerebral Visual Impairment Scotland website, and for all my eagerness not to claim I have something I don't, I also found a series of blog posts on nystagmus, which I do have. This is the thing that makes my eyes jump back and forth, I've answered some questions about it here a while ago. The webpage in general, including the nystagmus series, are very oriented at the concerned parents of children with these kinds of conditions but it was interesting for me to read.

I think because I grew up so isolated and uninformed about my eye conditions (despite yearly trips to the Mayo Clinic, I to this day have no idea what those were for!) it hasn't really occurred to me to read up much on them as an adult. I think another reason for this is that both my eye conditions are things I was born with that aren't fixable or even degenerative; they're just there and they stay there and there isn't much doctors or anyone can do about them.So it's kind of unusual and it feels good to read stuff about a part of my life that I don't actually know a lot about and don't hear about because I don't know anyone else who has it. Stuff like
in terms of what we see my headlines would be: it varies a lot from person to person; the world is stable (not moving) for most of us most of the time; and the impact of nystagmus on our vision - and our wider lives -- is more fascinating than simply how far we can or can't see. And one thing that's often overlooked: it's often very tiring having nystagmus.
There's someone else who's as tired of answering "how far/how much can you see?" as I am!
When I'm tired, struggling to see in bad light...then the world does temporarily move. And a wobbly world is very confusing. A moving world makes it very difficult to see. It's a difficult sensation to describe. Sometimes, the whole world seems to move. At other times, an object or person will appear to leap, jump, sparkle or flicker in and out of view.

That said, it seems probable that our brains do struggle to give us a fixed image when our eyes are constantly moving. A lot of us find that things aren't quite where we expect them to be. This may explain why we're generally not much good at catching things, are probably clumsier than average and frequently accidentally bump into door-frames, furniture and even people. But we don't yet have a way of measuring whether and how our moving eyes might make us clumsier than average. And there are other odd things linked to nystagmus - such as poor depth perception -- which may explain why we're more likely to trip over steps, inadvertently knock over a glass or hit the wrong keys on a keyboard.
I find this really interesting; that it's not actually well understood how nystagmus affects things like coordination. I also always assumed (guessing from first principles) that I have poor depth perception because one of my eyes is so much worse than the other -- like twice as bad -- but I guess it doesn't surprise me that it could be directly due to the nystagmus.
Lots of things can trigger these changes in our involuntary eye movements. The commonly cited ones include: tiredness, illness, worry, anxiety,apprehension, hunger, embarrassment, fear, emotional upset (death of a loved one or relationship difficulties), stress and hormonal changes (particularly in teenage years). Environmental factors such as poor lighting can increase nystagmus eye movements too.
Such a long list! I knew about tiredness, illness (my mom always said she could tell I was getting a cold as a kid before I knew it myself, based on my eyes) and stress (worsening nystagmus feels a lot like my migraine auras, and my migraines are also triggered by stress, so it's a lot of fun trying to guess which is which because the best methods of dealing with each can be pretty different). But things like worry, hunger, embarrassment, fear, worry...this might make a lot of sense out of a lot of things about me...
Whatever the cause or trigger, the upshot is the same: we have good days and bad days in terms of how we see. We can even have good and bad minutes, hours, weeks or even months (for example if we face long term anxiety about issues at work).
I always feel weird telling people my eyes have good and bad days, people aren't used to it, and it was just so validating to read this. I had a bad few weeks, bad month or so, I don't know, I might still be having it lately. Day after day where I can't look at my phone at all by the time I'm done with work, which is boring and isolating me when all my friends live there, so it's a huge bummer at a time when my mental health has already been so bad. I do sometimes think i should get better with screenreaders, which I now only use in a supplementary kind of way, for the bad days but it's so much work on its own, it's hard to tell if it's worth it.
Nystagmus also affects how long it takes us to see things. Put simply we need more time to see things than people with normal vision. In other words, we see slowly.
I love this. I used "I see slowly" just now in a meeting, I think it has a chance of explaining this thing which is so important to me: I think the most severe dimension of my impairment isn't that I'm effectively really short-sighted, it's this visual processing delay so even what I "can" "see" isn't actually always useful to me.
I said that tiredness can make nystagmus worse. It's also worth remembering that having nystagmus is tiring in itself. I'm not aware of any scientific research into how tiring it is to have nystagmus, but from personal experience and listening to others I'm pretty sure that many of us with the condition do find it pretty fatiguing. I realise we're not unique in that respect and acknowledge that the same is true of many disabilities. And I would argue that the additional load of having any disability is often not fully understood let alone recognised, especially in education and the workplace.... But technology doesn't give us perfect vision and comes with a price - not just financial either. Using LVAs (low vision aids) is often tiring and can't be equated with someone who has ordinary vision doing the same task. Just try scanning a spreadsheet with a magnifier if you don't believe me... And while on the subject of technology, I'm not aware of any simulation spectacles (sim specs) that really show what it's like to see through nystagmus eyes.
I've talked before about how much I detest simspecs, because they evoke fear and pity much more reliably than empathy, and empathy from sighted people isn’t actually necessary or sufficient to improve things for blind people: we should be listened to as the experts we are on our own conditions; anything else is like those times men pretend to be women online or white people pretend to be Black or whatever and then write articles about how much more terribly they’re treated than what they’re used to. Meanwhile loads of Black people/women/blind people/etc. are rightly aggravated that they’ve been saying these same sorts of things (and more nuanced things the people in relative privilege didn’t pick up on in their temporary experiement) all along without getting as much attention for it.

But anyway, I think another one of the reasons I hate simspecs is that they don’t represent what I find most impairing about my condition, which like I said isn’t “how much I can see” but how slow and tiring it is."

(no subject)

Date: 2021-12-02 03:40 pm (UTC)
davidgillon: A pair of crutches, hanging from coat hooks, reflected in a mirror (Default)
From: [personal profile] davidgillon
In other words, we see slowly.

I love this. I used "I see slowly" just now in a meeting, I think it has a chance of explaining this thing which is so important to me: I think the most severe dimension of my impairment isn't that I'm effectively really short-sighted, it's this visual processing delay so even what I "can" "see" isn't actually always useful to me.


My sister commented to me earlier this summer "When you say "Sorry?" or "I didn't catch that", it's not that you didn't hear it, it's to give you enough time to process what someone just said."

And I realised that she was right, and that even though I've wondered whether I have APD*, I hadn't linked it to how I actually cope with hearing stuff and not processing it as fast as other people clearly do. Of course it's a lot easier to say "Sorry?" to slow a conversation down than it is to deal with processing what you're seeing at a slower rate than you need to.

*I don't know if I do or not, but she definitely seems to suspect I do, and as her school's SENCO it's something she'd supposed to be able to spot.

(no subject)

Date: 2021-12-02 03:58 pm (UTC)
davidgillon: A pair of crutches, hanging from coat hooks, reflected in a mirror (Default)
From: [personal profile] davidgillon
I've talked before about how much I detest simspecs, because they evoke fear and pity much more reliably than empathy,

I'm the same with plopping someone in a wheelchair for an hour. It isn't useful because all it teaches them is to be scared of all the things they don't know how to do, and they know it'll be done with in a few more minutes. It would be much more useful if we could stick them in the chair for a month, because then they'd start to perceive it as normal, not freakishly different, and they'd start to understand the differences between what you can do in the chair, what the environment prevents you from doing, and what the people around you actively stop you from doing. And as you mention for simspecs, all the extra energy you have to use to cope with these.

OTOH I do think there is one thing plopping people in wheelchairs is useful for - teaching them how bloody uncomfortable rolling over cobbles is!

(no subject)

Date: 2021-12-02 05:49 pm (UTC)
worlds_of_smoke: A picture of a brilliantly colored waterfall cascading into a river (Default)
From: [personal profile] worlds_of_smoke
If you replace "see" with "hear, "I see slowly" is precisely how my brain works when it comes to hearing. It's really fun when we don't have the staff to run the drive-through at work. Everyone comes inside and all the noise from them just does a huge number on my hearing. It kind of like my brain gets in a logjam! But I have an advantage with my APD (when we're not in a pandemic) since I can read lips to speed up my processing a bit. I'm not sure if there's a similar thing that you can do to compensate for visual overload.

(What's really fun about APD is people get condescending when I have to ask them what they just told me because everything is TOO. FUCKING. LOUD. -.- You're wearing a mask and talking quietly while everyone else around me is talking louder. What do you expect me to do?!)

(no subject)

Date: 2021-12-02 09:45 pm (UTC)
packbat: A bat wearing a big asexual-flag (black-gray-white-purple) backpack. (Default)
From: [personal profile] packbat
This is really interesting - and also it makes a ton of sense? Like, thinking of it like a computer program, you're doing a whole lot of extra post-processing that other people don't have to do.

Hopefully knowing more things will help you navigate it.

(no subject)

Date: 2021-12-02 11:32 pm (UTC)
otter: (Default)
From: [personal profile] otter
That's really helpful information, as far as my own understanding of nystagmus goes. Thank you for writing it all out and sharing your thoughts on it. All 3 of the people I live with have different sensory processing speeds in various ways, and those speeds vary with all the factors mentioned above. It's especially apparent with trying to have a conversation with Mouse- who may need a full 60 seconds of quiet before responding to someone. I make sure to explain this to all his care team when they start working with him.

(no subject)

Date: 2021-12-03 03:28 pm (UTC)
barakta: (Default)
From: [personal profile] barakta
This is why there should be more room in the "professional services" for adults with similar conditions to be paid and respected as experts-by-experience and being one of the points of contact for the people with the condition and their families. So people like you or me can talk to people about lived reality, not just that which gets put in textbooks or papers. And indeed what medics/professionals deign to remember or consider important.

This post of yours sounds very similar to other writing on nystagmus that I've read. Also specifically the psycho-emotional links is something I've talked to Amy K about a lot and that a good day can turn bad because of a strong emotion (good or bad) [Now getting wiksanded by reading about neurology of emotions] :)...

I think I also see slowly. Especially spatial information. One of my orthoptists discovered this when I'd got them to give me a private quiet room for consultations. They'd bagged a seminar room set up in rows. Orthoptist had set up 2 chairs facing for us on the far side of the room from the door, by the window with best natural light. I had to walk through the rows of desks/chairs to it... And it was HARD. I had to physically stop and make sense of the visual clutter several times in a 20-30 person classroom sized room. This orthoptist was astute enough to notice and ask me about it. I know I struggle in new places. I need to walk round, on my own (preferably when there's no crowds), no other input data just to work stuff out. I totally understand why some autistic people need to see a space a few times before being familiar enough with it to feel more comfortable...


I get oscillopsia when I am tired or something has pissed off my balance system. I liked the description of things flickering in and out of vision. I find I can't process people/movements properly and cos I can't hear reliably I don't know where people are by sound. I am easily startled (VERY startleable even by deaf standards). My partner knows on a bad day that she can't move in my visual field without warning me first or I'll freak out.


I probably should have nystagmus but don't cos of the paralysed nerves which operate the "moving eyes outwards" muscles because of my 6th cranial nerve palsy (Duane's Syndrome 1A). I don't know if I would still have the vision things that I do if I didn't have the Duane's syndrome.

Sensory input systems and brains are quite impressive. I wish there was better general awareness of them in terms of designing and creating the world we live in. Buildings. Visual clutter, acoustics. I also wish we were more aware of prevalence of sensory impairment or differences instead of assuming everyone experiences stuff the same way.

Thanks for your two posts in DW this last day or so, super interesting all round.

(no subject)

Date: 2021-12-10 03:30 pm (UTC)
jesse_the_k: harbor seal's head captioned "seal of approval" (Approval)
From: [personal profile] jesse_the_k

Thanks for providing a tiny window on your unique sensory systems.

(no subject)

Date: 2021-12-10 10:30 am (UTC)
sfred: Fred wearing a hat in front of a trans flag (Default)
From: [personal profile] sfred
Thank you for writing about this.

Thanks for writing this up

Date: 2021-12-10 03:47 pm (UTC)
jesse_the_k: harbor seal's head captioned "seal of approval" (Approval)
From: [personal profile] jesse_the_k

Yikes! The variability is tiring.

I feel like the global esthetic valorizes rapidity, change, suprise and damn I prefer a known universe.

No data nor refs, but I put it down to the ubiquity of outdoor digital signage. I was awed by their appearance in Blade Runner 1982. They'd become commonplace when I attended my second pro baseball game: a tv-like screen hangs below the balcony, around 12 feet high and as wide as the balcony! While the announcer is revving up the crowd, animations of baseballs going 90 mph streak across the displays.

(no subject)

Date: 2021-12-16 05:56 am (UTC)
silveradept: A kodama with a trombone. The trombone is playing music, even though it is held in a rest position (Default)
From: [personal profile] silveradept
That sounds encouraging to have someone else describing the things that you experience so well, even if it's likely that the rest of the world doesn't get it nearly enough to be helpful to you.

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